Continuation of #AskIndicine QnA. Read More
Q. Though Bajirao Mastani might have won the clash domestically. Still Dilwale is far more profitable than Bajirao. Don’t you think verdict of Dilwale will be same as Bajirao Mastani?
A. Verdicts are confusing these days, not just for the people who follow collections and verdicts, but even for us.. because there are so many factors involved. In today’s times, there is tremendous pressure on websites like us and even trade analysts to be more lenient. Verdicts are no longer strict. Trade analysts like Komal Nahta (Film Information, ETC) used to be very strict when it came to verdicts before, but now even they follow official collections and verdicts. One of the reasons for this is to create perception that a film starring a big actor hasn’t failed and two, there is pressure from fans – which has only increased because of social media.
In olden times, verdicts used to given purely on the basis of recovery of domestic distributors. If that’s the case, Dilwale is a FLOP in India. There are no two ways about this. Shah Rukh Khan sold territories for a high price to distributors and some of them haven’t even recovered half of their investment. Rajasthan distributor, who paid 8.5 crore for the film, will lose about 4.5 crore of his investment. The verdict simply does not matter. The trade knows the truth and that is, Dilwale has failed in the domestic market. The same applies to even a film like Jai Ho.
For Shah Rukh Khan, the producer, Dilwale is a hugely profitable film. The overseas share could be as high as 65 crore plus and that along with satellite rights, he would have recovered his investment. Recovery from domestic, music and everything else are his profits – which all combined could be close to Rs 100 crore. But these profits come at a cost of local distributors suffering huge losses. In other words, Dilwale would have been profitable for Shah Rukh Khan even if it collected 10 crore in India or didn’t release at all.
Since Dilwale has done blockbuster business in the overseas markets, it’s final overall verdict would be Above Average or Semi Hit in the best case.
On the other hand, since you ask about Bajirao Mastani, the film is a profitable venture for everyone involved. No one will lose money. The simple reason for this is, Bajirao Mastani has over-performed both in overseas and domestic markets. It has exceeded expectations wherever it has released. Dilwale has only performed well overseas.
So , in that case the same is applicable to Ra One too na??? Collected just 120 CE range in domestic and overseas was also nothing remarkable considering K3G collections way back in 2001.
@indicine some movie had hit, superhit , and even blockbuster verdict with scoring only in one region like hum dil de chuke sanam , raam Lila , ….etc but otherside dilwale doing blockbuster business other part of India like westbengal….. etc which is not done by some previous blockbuster movies…
and in oversease it is unmatchable so worldwide till date above 300 cr so if you taking some factor that clash protest and bajirao based on Maharashtra background so obviously it is first choice there but what about other part where it didn’t do even avg business so to see these factor dilwale is hit bcoz it easy to do 190cr business with solo realese 5000screen compare than 150cr 2700screen with clash of Maharashtra based movie so dilwale is a clear winner
DILWALE RECORD BREKING & HIGHEST GROSSER 2015 Uk, Uae Gulf, Malaysia, Indonasia, Jordan, Finland, Iraq, Morocco, Egept, West Indies,These r nt traditional Bollywood markets, pakistan, Srilanka, Australia, Newzealand 2nd best. germany release next week. pakistan may be 20+cr
So dilwale overseas may be all time blocbuster by 160-170cr
@ sky its about distributor share not DISTRIBUTOR RETURN OR BUDGET
A films verdict is depended on how well it does theatrically. For big budget films a 4 crore share would mean blockbuster in 1970 and in 1995 it was the 20 crore mark, today (2010) its nearly 50 crore. The trade and media tend to bring prices in to put up a perception and then for another film the price factor goes away as a different perception is being put up. A film can be purchased at a Blockbuster price but may do only Super Hit business so therefore lose money but the fact remains it has done Super Hit theatrical business, just the distributor overpaid. If this film has a good perception with the media then it will called success and if perception is not good then the losses will be talked about.
A Ghajini was purchased at a Blockbuster price and managed All Time Blockbuster business and if this film was to be judged on distributor return (DISTRIBUTOR RETURN ) then it would be an Above Average fare but the level of its theatrical performance is far more important then the huge premium paid by the distributors.
The budgets, deals which go on behind the scenes are very different and have many clauses which are different for each film. It is also difficult to judge a film on budgets as movies like Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi and Three Idiots only have a production budget of 25 crore and 30 crore respectively as there were profit sharing deals with main leads and with director as well for Three Idiots so you can’t put a budget to these films as you can with some others. Also nobody apart from producer and distributor know the exact details of a deal. The one constant for every film is theatrical business be it Domestic or International. Every film has two verdicts one for Indian theatrical and one for International theatrical. Other revenue sources like satellite, music etc can have verdicts but these can’t be based on how what price they fetch as that is like saying a film is a theatrical hit depending on what price it fetches rather than actual performance….
@REW1 READ IT PROPERLY
Indicine how can a screen size not matter….???
important specially in clashes to decide verdict whether its for BM also…
The size of the release basically decides how big a film is, if a film releases on 1000 plus cinemas with 18-20-22 shows at multiplexes then it is regarded as a big film and the mark today (Sept 2010) for blockbuster business is nearly 50 crore distributor share. This does not mean that a film release on 500 cinemas with 9-10-11 shows per multiplex will be a a blockbuster at 25 crore as when a film goes over 500 cinemas then the cinemas become lower earning single screens. A film has to achieve a certain amount per print/cinema it is released on to do Average Hit, Super Hit, etc business. As the releases get bigger the lifetime share marks get bigger. Also some releases get big releases but limited shows at multiplexes and they have to judged accordingly…
Dilwale 100cr budget….The budget is lower as Shahrukh Khan is producer so figures going around do not include his remuneration. The recovery of Dilwale is also higher as it has much higher returns through Satellite and Overseas. The recovery will go close to 200 crore while Bajirao Mastani will be 30-35 crore less but that was on the cards as Shahrukh Khan is a superstar. The win is that it has stood up to Dilwale and emerged stronger in India. Recovery for such a huge budget for Bajirao Mastani against a film like Dilwale is a big achievement. Both films r hit
POINTWISE FOR @rew1 & @sky
A films verdict is depended on how well it does theatrically. For big budget films a 4 crore share would mean blockbuster in 1970 and in 1995 it was the 20 crore mark, today (2010) its nearly 50 crore.
The trade and media tend to bring prices in to put up a perception and then for another film the price factor goes away as a different perception is being put up.
A film can be purchased at a Blockbuster price but may do only Super Hit business so therefore lose money but the fact remains it has done Super Hit theatrical business, just the distributor overpaid.
If this film has a good perception with the media then it will called success and if perception is not good then the losses will be talked about.
A Ghajini was purchased at a Blockbuster price and managed All Time Blockbuster business and if this film was to be judged on distributor return (DISTRIBUTOR RETURN ) then it would be an Above Average fare but the level of its theatrical performance is far more important then the huge premium paid by the distributors.
The budgets, deals which go on behind the scenes are very different and have many clauses which are different for each film. It is also difficult to judge a film on budgets as movies like Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi and Three Idiots only have a production budget of 25 crore and 30 crore respectively as there were profit sharing deals with main leads and with director as well for Three Idiots so you can’t put a budget to these films as you can with some others.
Also nobody apart from producer and distributor know the exact details of a deal. The one constant for every film is theatrical business be it Domestic or International. Every film has two verdicts one for Indian theatrical and one for International theatrical.
Other revenue sources like satellite, music etc can have verdicts but these can’t be based on how what price they fetch as that is like saying a film is a theatrical hit depending on what price it fetches rather than actual performance….
1980 to 1990 highest grosser of the decade mpk salman khan
1990 to 2000 hahk salman khan
2000 to 2010 amirkhan 3 idiots and second highest grosser of the decade is s
alman khan Dabang and
2010 to 2020 again Amir sir or bhaijaan again ..Queen is always teesra khan??
Hello @indicine,
Define All Time Blockbuster?
Correct me if I am wrong: ATBB by definition is the collection of a movie which is close to the highest ATBB, and has collection better in at least half of the circuits than the previous ATBB. It may or may not cross the figure of the ATBB.
With this Definition of ATBB, I concluded that EK THA TIGER should be ATBB, since ETT was very close to then highest grosser Three Idiots. Also had won Three Idiots in most circuits (As Mumbai collection of Three Idiots is ways higher)
Now let me talk about JAI HO!!!
Jai Ho was sold to Eros Domestic+Overseas on a budget of $16million(110 crore apprx) and it collected net $27million(WorldWide 183 crore apprx)
It had overall budget(including P&R) of $10million(65crore approx)
Now you @indicine tell me what is the exact verdict?
Domestic collection: 110 crore net
Overseas collection: 73 crore net
Will this movie be an Above average when it collected 110 crore domestically??When it was sold WorldWide rights with 110 crore…….????????????????????
My verdict
Domestic: SuperHit
International: Hit
OverAll: Hit
Now lets talk about Dilwale
Dilwale budget of 100 crore($15 million) ….Not including SRK+Rohit Shetty renumeration
Distribution Rights(src: Bollywood Hungama): Domestic 130crore Oversease: 40crore
Now you @indicine tell me what is the exact verdict?
Domestic collection: 135crore net approx(src:BollywoodHungama)
Overseas collection: 111 crore gross(src: BH)
WorldWide collection: 246crore
Will this movie be an Above average when it collected 135 crore domestically??When it was sold WorldWide rights with 170 crore…….???????????????????? Tell me @indicine….
My Verdict:
Domestic: Flop (Since distribution share is only 65-68crore but sold at 135crore)
Overseas: Blockbuster
OverAll: AboveAverage
SHOW SOME RESPECT TO SALMAN BHAI!!!!!!@INDICINE
I know he doesn’t pay to you guys since he is busy taking care of homeless kids and being involved in BEING HUMAN….So please Respect Bhai: 6BB, 1ATBB, 1SuperHit, 1SemiHit (Last Nine Movies)
Respect(1000 crore in single calendar year WorldWide) It is a record!!!!When will you say this?????
No actor has collected 1000 crore in a single calendar year and SALMAN BHAI did it with just 2 movies!!!
RESPECT!!!!!SALMAN BHAI!!!
SRK haters chutyio ..Diwale budget is 70cr & its collected around130cr in 2weeks it means its a superhit and Bajiroa budger is 160cr n its collected 140cr it means BM flop….
I told dilwale was flop
Srk fans – dilwale blockbuster in overseas
But what about our theatre owner who paid huge amount to srk n red chilies
Shame on srk
On the other hand
Considered
Jai ho no body loss Money
Stop argument srk fans
Face truth
@universal disaster king abe idiot jerk, aamir has given ATBBs with all genres. What has over actor srk has given? Babaji ka thullu? Let him make movies as classic as aamir. Uske bas ki nahi hai. Dont even dare to compare chota mota star like srk with megastar Samir khan. Aamir khan has billions of fans worldwide and srk doesn’t even have half as many fans as megastar aamir khan.
@ps just read article WHAT IS A HIT u gadhe…din me to padh sakta hai na idiot…clearly stated there on distributor returning base GHAJINI verdict different…all who go gaga over my comment atlist read and understand criteria of verdicts
@universal flop king,megastar aamir has given much bigger grossers than flopwaale. Flopwaale us a big fusss in India. It’s a disaster. Srk ki aukaat nahi hai aamir se compete karne ki. Let your srk give ghajini, 3 idiots, pk and dhoom 3 and make it ATBB and ATHG then only talk about fan following. Accept it or get lost. aamir has much bigger fan following than overacting ki dukaan srk.
@sem I have gone through with that article but even the trade verdict is not define the case accurate for a movie like Ra1. It is justified for a movie like mnik and kank as there overseas success were biggest there and they did above average business in domestic, that’s why I eben think that Dilwale might got semi-hit or hit verdict with that scenario. But ra1 couldn’t be termed a hit even with that basis. The film failed to recover its making cost with each market as well as it was underperformer on domestic market and did not done excellent business in overseas. Ra1 verdict can’t be justify in any case, only by considering satellite rights and other revenue sources non-thatrical made the film profitable, but if this the case I don’t think even jai ho was a failure and neither talaash was semi-hit. Its very confusing and inconsistent excercide by trade now a days.
@Romance hahaha who would bought ghajini with 85cr, when not a single movie collected that figure by them when it released. What was too much spending in ghajini as movie was a remake, debutant director and actress in Bollywood. Even supporting cast wasn’t big. Only big thing Aamir khan and you are accepting Ghajini budget was 85cr with even movie shooting completely done in India. Moreover when rnbdj budget was 20-25cr, Ghajini sold to 85cr. You mean to say Aamir was way ahead than srk that time also. I agree. Lol
Dilwale is a hit film, no matter whether it is semi hit or clean hit.. some people here cannot bear the success of dilwale.
@Tiger I have talked about some salman fans and for example I took @ashok name but for many other salman fans also. Question is not about Jai ho verdict or success but about why many of you termed it a B grade film, or Salman film with b grade director and supporting cast. Its insulting for entire cast and crew and also for Salman. There are many Salman fans who talking nonsense but I mostly remain silent. But here look at morons like @salman fan, @universal fan and others also. So I talked in general for everybody. Every one has right to defend their idol but that doesn’t mean you are disrespecting others regularly.
@Indicine u r right! Any kid nowadays strt tlking about box office without any knowledge, u r surely one of them! 1st thing, there ws no need to bring jai ho as an example in between ur dilwale article, as if u always trying to create a situation between salman and srk fans or else how would ur site work?! 2nd thing dat if jai ho, a film which flim’s distributors lost only around 10% of their money is termed as semihit, then dliwale cnt be termed more dan an above average affair considering its its excellent overseas performance #
Dilwale 100cr budget…..
DILWALE INDIA GROSS 195CR (NET 135CR) AND OVERSEAS GROSS 135CR(20M DOLLAR) TOTAL WORLDWIDE 330CR WITH CLASH AND VERDICT WORLDWIDE HIT………..
if OSO was blockbuster then Ghajini was ATBB so stop using any logics.
@Joe The Srkian, if u want to see SRK on different platform then see him before release of his films when he do Lungi Dance in World Tour.
Why do you guys want to force a movie to be a flop? the movie is a profitable venture Dilwale has been disturbed in some areas and that is where the distributors lost money!!! so whose mistake is this? is it SRK? these people who caused the problems, makes a difference to the distributors not SRK. really sad!!! plus so many threats elsewhere too, BTW this proves it SRK doesnt depend on Indian collections only!!!! He is bigger than anyone can dream off!!! so rip haters come up with all the analysis you want its a blockbuster internationally in some areas even beaten the biggies like star wars!!! haters rip once again! stop him in india but the world loves him!!!!
@fan pk bro u r still dreaming. in west bengal BB and PK are still far ahead of Dilwale. Dilwale is ahead of only CE and Kick. Dilwale trailing BB and PK. so stop dreaming. and stop using baseless logic of clash bcz u forget that the film which clashed with Dilwale is doing much better business than Dilwale. BM is going above 160-170 crs so stop saying that Dilwale failed to touch 150 bcz it was clashed with BM. Sharm ki baat hai, BM bhi to 160-170 crs ki business karne wali hai wo bhi 3.8 billions wale fan ke against. to ye kehna band kar do ke clash ke wajah se Dilwale 150 crs ki business nahi kar paa rahi hai, BM bhi to Clash mein hi business kar rahi hai.
One film (Dilwale) struggling to cross 150 crs and One film (BM) doing terrific business of 170 crs.
and Here SRK’s shameless fans are saying that Dilwale doing business of 150 bcz it is clashed, LOL
then why BM doing business above 170 crs ? is it not clashed ? Yeah Of course it is clashed and the clash is Against SRK. but still doing business above 170 crs. Then why SRK fans are making excuse of clash ?
and indicine post this comment bcz it’s a tight slap for srk fans who r making useless logic of CLASH
According to SRK fans, Only SRK do classics like CE, JTHJ, Maya Mem Saab, HNY, Dilwale, Don 2, Ra.One, Chamatkar, Raju Ban gaya Gentleman, King Uncle, English Baabu Desi Mem, Koyla, Duplicate, Asoka, Paheli, and many more.
And rest of Industry do flops and craps like. 3 Idiots, PK, Dil, Dil Chahta hai, Rang De Basanti, Bajrangi Bhaijaan, Dabangg, Maine Pyaar Kiya, Hum Aap ke Hain kaun, Hum Dil de chuke sanam, Baby, Special 26, Drishyam, Apaharan, Satyagarah, Dhadkan, and many more films. These all are Craps According to SRK fans.
Bajirao mastani has a wrong history but dilwale is the better than bajirao mastani
@Indicine:I believe RCE is a distributor for dilwale and there only some sub-distributor who have not recovered there amount as they bought with high pricing.
But still as a distributor Dilwale would remain as profitable venture.
There were many film in past where sub distributor have lost there money example Kick verdict was given as blockbuster but still some subdistributor lost their money same goes with HNY and RAOne.
As in case of dilwale this Sub-distributor happens to be from the main circuit you cannot change the Verdict criteria?
I found some idiots saying Srk was more succesfull in 90s. Before saying something go and check yourself idiots.
In 90s
Salman 2 ATBBs 1 BB 2 Superhits 7 Hits 1 Semihit
Srk 2 ATBBs 1 BB 2 Superhits 4 Hits.
Even if we remove those in which Salman was not in lead then still he is ahead of Srk.
One more thing is Srks both ATBBs were with Yrf and Dharma, 2 Superhits with Yrf and 1 hit each with Yrf and Dharma.
Pull out Srk from Yrf it will still be biggest production house in India. But Srk will then compete with Akshay for 4th position behind Salman, Amir and HRo.
if u go by trade expectations then even PRDP, TALAASH and JAI HO are FLOPS because they were way below expectations!
Sad for indicine. U r so biased towards BM. If u consider Dilwale flop, then why not Jai Ho and Dhobi Ghaat. U should be neutral. Shahrukh’s movie earned profits both domestically and overseas. Don’t forget that.