Continuation of #AskIndicine QnA. Read More
Q. Though Bajirao Mastani might have won the clash domestically. Still Dilwale is far more profitable than Bajirao. Don’t you think verdict of Dilwale will be same as Bajirao Mastani?
A. Verdicts are confusing these days, not just for the people who follow collections and verdicts, but even for us.. because there are so many factors involved. In today’s times, there is tremendous pressure on websites like us and even trade analysts to be more lenient. Verdicts are no longer strict. Trade analysts like Komal Nahta (Film Information, ETC) used to be very strict when it came to verdicts before, but now even they follow official collections and verdicts. One of the reasons for this is to create perception that a film starring a big actor hasn’t failed and two, there is pressure from fans – which has only increased because of social media.
In olden times, verdicts used to given purely on the basis of recovery of domestic distributors. If that’s the case, Dilwale is a FLOP in India. There are no two ways about this. Shah Rukh Khan sold territories for a high price to distributors and some of them haven’t even recovered half of their investment. Rajasthan distributor, who paid 8.5 crore for the film, will lose about 4.5 crore of his investment. The verdict simply does not matter. The trade knows the truth and that is, Dilwale has failed in the domestic market. The same applies to even a film like Jai Ho.
For Shah Rukh Khan, the producer, Dilwale is a hugely profitable film. The overseas share could be as high as 65 crore plus and that along with satellite rights, he would have recovered his investment. Recovery from domestic, music and everything else are his profits – which all combined could be close to Rs 100 crore. But these profits come at a cost of local distributors suffering huge losses. In other words, Dilwale would have been profitable for Shah Rukh Khan even if it collected 10 crore in India or didn’t release at all.
Since Dilwale has done blockbuster business in the overseas markets, it’s final overall verdict would be Above Average or Semi Hit in the best case.
On the other hand, since you ask about Bajirao Mastani, the film is a profitable venture for everyone involved. No one will lose money. The simple reason for this is, Bajirao Mastani has over-performed both in overseas and domestic markets. It has exceeded expectations wherever it has released. Dilwale has only performed well overseas.
Distributors lost huge amounts Dilwale deserves atleast a flop verdict as it has done disaster business in all the main circuits like Mumbai, CP Berar, Delhi / UP, Rajasthan, CI etc.
Budget – 165 cr, LT -135 Verdict – Flop
Srk is more consistent than Salman no doubt but he never achived the kind of Super stardom
like Salman, Big B or Rajesh Khanna.
Srk in is whole career gave only one blockbuster which was crap, in short only one BB on his power. All other were well recieved and had suitable genere for that era except CDI.
Salman could be more consistent if not involved in contorversies an court cases. He was the most succesfull Khan in 90s decade, Srk ruled last and again Salman is rulling this decade but what makes Salman bigger is his Megastardom which Srk never achived and will not achive as his career is going to over in 2or 3 years.
@indicine don’t show ur biasedness jai ho had not festive release it had not high budget infact it was looking b grade movie and despite of all odds jai ho was clearly semi hit and done much better than dilwale considering ticket prices,starcast,director,budget,promotion,festive periods and dilwale is clear flop so accept this.
@Ashok, you don’t make any sense. Factors why a film didn’t perform well, doesn’t change it’s verdict. If a investor in any business loses money, the business is a failure.A distributor invests in a film to earn money, if he loses money, you can’t console him talking about factors.
The problem these days is kids who have zero understanding about trade, discuss box office.
According to my calculations Dilwale is average movie but still everyone consider it semi hit
@indicine:
The makers of Jai Ho earned more than 100cr profit from it. But the movie was not a clean hit according to you & all trade pundits. Because some distributors lost some money to it.
Hence, dilwale can’t be considered a hit no matter how much the makers earned from it.
if BOI give dilwale hit or semi hit verdict, akshay’s tees mar khan should be given hit verdict, since it didn’t lose, just performed below expectation but 60 to 70 cr in 2010 was equivalent to 150 cr today, since many big opening films back then didn’t collect 50 crore weekend or over 100 cr a week.
Dilwale was SRKs best bet of this decade..its shocking to see that it is a FLOP in some circuits.. Can’t believe my eyes
this mean ra one and devdaas were flops because both were higher budget movies then collection but because of bias media got hit verdics. i am happy that indicine revealed.
According BOI, Jai Ho was ‘SEMI HIT’ but you gave ‘Above Average’ Verdict.
@ salmanfan Jai ho is pure flop without clashing and they said above avarage and they dilwale collecting around 150 cr and saying flop shame on you mad people pagal check box office figure and come to this page idiot
I hate komal nahta’s verdict and sometimes he contradicts his own verdict also.
@Indicine
In QnA session you used another trick to favour Srk that whenever you have to declare Salman as winner in any comparison then you try to bring Amir’s name in between.
Everybody knows Salman’s market value is bigger than any other but you said Amir’s market value is highest.
This trick you have used many times and I have noticed it long before.
@Salmanfan, three of Aamir’s last 4 films have been the highest grossers of all time. Common sense, he would command the highest fee if he were to charge his producers. By far. He also does just one film in 1 / 2 years.
Distributors also lost money in case of Jai Ho . Then why was it declared Average/Above Average ? It should also be FLOP right ?
Same goes with Ra-One . Distributors of some territories lost money – still it was declared Hit because of its great Overseas performance . In the case of Dilwale , its even better . Film is already Blockbuster in Overseas , could well go on to be ATBB !
Hence , Dilwale is clean HIT in India .
Guys accept the fact that Dilwale is hugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee FLOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP .
A newcomer like Ranveer Singh beats SRK for box office race in India ….
Huge shame for SRK … !!!!!!!!!!!!
Moral of the story : Never underestimate your opponent. Be humble. God is there !!
@indicine
I am also interested to know the strict verdict of ra1, mnik and don 2
Semi-hit ?? Noooo
Above average at best.
See d loss in baby was vry less compare 2 dilwale nd u gave it above average verdict. The overseas business has helped dilwale otherwise it would hve been below average.
Now an average or above average at best.
Semi-hit is completely unacceptable.
If it does 160 plus then semi-hit can be given….!
i mean how much entertainment tax in overseas? can you give overseas footfalls?
@salmanfan what u Said in Not True. .
Fromm 2000 To 2010 srk Was The biggest Among The 3 khans And pheraphs The bigger star in India. ( because aamir started giving blockbuster From 2008 And 2009) And Salman gave only some hits ( like akky now)
So srk ruled From 2000 To 2010
In The 90′ salman And srk were rising stars (altough They both given 2 ATB; And salman gave Maine pyar kya; But srk continued kkhh, dtpg etc.
Now from 2010 To 2012 salma ruled
From 2012 To 2015 The situation id changed as aamir has 2 ATB; srk 1 And salman 1
And also salman And srk have 2 underperformers (Jai ho And dilwale)
And if jai ho Was a semihit Then The same shoul be applied on dilwale ( To be Fair )
So i Think The race is still on (but aamir leads a little)
Thank you
@indicine:
According to you mohenjodaro needs 100% occupancy to touch 50cr mark from 5000 screens.
One simple question for you….Then how did HNY collect 45cr nett on opening day with around 85% occupancy from only 4100 screens.
I challenge you team #indicine if you can answer to the question then I will convert to a srk fan and praise everything you will post.
Arre Bhai #indicine answer mat do kam se kam comment toh post karo…!!!
@Farhad yes
Dilwale will be known as a flop just like TMK is known as flop
TMK too did well but expectations were more .
I think Jai ho still did better,it was’nt sold at record prices like Dilwale.Dilwale has been disastrous in some circuits.It has done well only in WB,Nizam,TN,Kerala,Assam!
Verdict should be Above Avg. I guess!
Ra.One deserved Semi-hit/Abv Avg too,Only God knows how it got Hit verdict..
You also change verdict if he is not your fav. Firstly you gave Kick – all time blockbuster verdict. Later you changed it.
Ek Tha Tiger also had deserved All Time Blockbuster Verdict but you had given Blockbuster. You are also biased.
@Indicine what do you mean by verdict. In past time; there were nothing business in overseas. Today there is huge. This is not money for producer. This is not today’s fact that the movie is flop in u.p, mahrastra, delhi, rajsthan etc. Overall collection and budget of movie must only be considered for verdict. I am not understanding that Dilwale and BM have equal budget, and worldwide collection of dilwale will be higher than worldwide collection of BM, but you say dilwale is flop because it’s flop in rajhsthan, kanpur etc. You should know, 30 years ago, the verdict was totally depend on mumbai collection. Even verdict of hollywood movie depends upon worldwide collection not only americas collection.
Not any clear show by indicine…as boi distributor share is just 3 cr difference then a movie have a upper budget how can call hit…no idea what so ever on the indicine scenario….
Cool. Dilwale is a semi-hit (Same as Jai Ho). So SRK continued his legacy as his last FLOP was Paheli way back in 2005.
Though I said it before, will say it again. Collections of Dilwale are disappointing for me and it not at all matches the standard of a film starring Shah Rukh Khan.
@Shantabai 08:15 pm: Don’t know where did you see the budget of Dilwale 165 CR. And as indicine stated, if Dilwale is a FLOP, so is Jai Ho as distributors lost a huge amount there too.
@Ashok 08:19 pm: Festive release has nothing to do with the verdict and recovery of distributors. A film starring Salman khan, that too after 1.5 years, distributors paid a huge amount but didn’t get the recovery in that proportion.
@Chuhe my loyal “JACK” 08:32 pm : Leave indicine as they have other works to do. You answer me, how PRDP collected 42 CR on 4500 screens with 80-85% of occupancy, when the combined collection of Dilwale and BM(on Sunday) was in the same range on 5000 screens with same occupancy ?
@phenominal idiot:
You said distributors lost money on both Jai Ho & Dilwale. But according to you Jai Ho verdict is average and Dilwale’s verdict is clean Hit!! What a HYPOCRISY!!!
Get well soon moron..
everyone make aamir high he is not high his movies are high @indicine you are srk fan admit it
@indicine:
You called those people stupid who say CE & hny are successful due to Deepika.
What will you call the moronic loongitards who say Bajrangi Bhaijaan is successful only because of Harshali???
WHAT IS A HIT?
The box office verdict of a film on this website is based on theatrical business. There are two verdicts, one for the domestic market and one for the international market because this is where the public is paying to watch a film and a film has to be watched to be a hit. Business of different revenue sectors is not put together to give verdict.
In the early late 60’s early 70’s, a big film would fetch a price of around 60 lakhs from all its distributors in India and when the money was recovered the distributor would start to give overflow for the producers after his commission. Hit films at that time could recover a share of 2 crore while blockbusters over 3.50 crore but still prices were so low because it took a long time to recover those low prices. Films had a 20-30 print release and it was staggered release so some places may have a release a year later. Basically a producer recovered or nearly recovered costs by selling his film and then waited for the film to be accepted by the public and the profit would be the overflow which come in time. This was all very low risk and 90% films recovered costs unless the budget was too high and the film faced rejection which would result in losses. Examples of this are Amrapali, Mera Naam Joker and Reshma Aur Shera.
Today the scenario is totally changed as distributors pay a huge premium as its all about two weeks and not years. A films verdict is depended on how well it does theatrically. For big budget films a 4 crore share would mean blockbuster in 1970 and in 1995 it was the 20 crore mark, today (2010) its nearly 50 crore. The trade and media tend to bring prices in to put up a perception and then for another film the price factor goes away as a different perception is being put up. A film can be purchased at a Blockbuster price but may do only Super Hit business so therefore lose money but the fact remains it has done Super Hit theatrical business, just the distributor overpaid. If this film has a good perception with the media then it will called success and if perception is not good then the losses will be talked about. A Ghajini was purchased at a Blockbuster price and managed All Time Blockbuster business and if this film was to be judged on distributor return then it would be an Above Average fare but the level of its theatrical performance is far more important then the huge premium paid by the distributors.
The budgets, deals which go on behind the scenes are very different and have many clauses which are different for each film. It is also difficult to judge a film on budgets as movies like Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi and Three Idiots only have a production budget of 25 crore and 30 crore respectively as there were profit sharing deals with main leads and with director as well for Three Idiots so you can’t put a budget to these films as you can with some others. Also nobody apart from producer and distributor know the exact details of a deal. The one constant for every film is theatrical business be it Domestic or International. Every film has two verdicts one for Indian theatrical and one for International theatrical. Other revenue sources like satellite, music etc can have verdicts but these can’t be based on how what price they fetch as that is like saying a film is a theatrical hit depending on what price it fetches rather than actual performance.
The size of the release basically decides how big a film is, if a film releases on 1000 plus cinemas with 18-20-22 shows at multiplexes then it is regarded as a big film and the mark today (Sept 2010) for blockbuster business is nearly 50 crore distributor share. This does not mean that a film release on 500 cinemas with 9-10-11 shows per multiplex will be a a blockbuster at 25 crore as when a film goes over 500 cinemas then the cinemas become lower earning single screens. A film has to achieve a certain amount per print/cinema it is released on to do Average Hit, Super Hit, etc business. As the releases get bigger the lifetime share marks get bigger. Also some releases get big releases but limited shows at multiplexes and they have to judget accordingly
If we get into prices and budgets against total revenue it allows for what is called a manufactured hit. Many films in India are made at low budgets at 2-3 crore and do bad theatrical business (sometimes zero) but with satellite and DVD rights they sometimes manage to make money which would mean they are success using the profit system.
All verdicts at BoxOfficeIndia.Com are given for the theatrical business judged against the release size which we believe is the best way to judge a success of a film. There is a verdict for Indian theatrical and International theatrical but no Worldwide verdict as it is difficult to judge two markets. A blockbuster in India and Overseas is easy to call but a Blockbuster in India and flop overseas or vice versa is near impossible to call correctly. All films are judged using this system.
The profit/loss system is hugely against films purchased at a premium and hugely in favour of films which are not sold to anyone and so therefore gives a completely incorrect picture of box office success/failure if followed strictly. An example of this is below.
Film A – Budget 40 crore. Producer releases himself with 50 crore investment including P&A. The film brings in 60 crore and the film is called a success.
Film B – Budget 40 crore. Worldwide rights purchased by third party for 90 crore giving third party investment of 100 crore including P&A. The film brings in 85 crore but will be called loser.
As can be seen the more successful film has the lower verdict because one was sold and one was not.
Films like Rocket Singh and Paathshaala had costs of 17 crore and 10 crore respectively and released by the producers so even when they did not find a audience they were still profitable due to low costs and revenue coming in from revenue steams like Satellite and DVD. Films like Kites are at the other end of the spectrum where they need All Time Blockbuster business in India or huge business overseas to get near the prices they were purchased at. But above all it must be remembered that box office has nothing to do with satellite, music, DVD, etc. Box office is all about the public coming to watch a film at a theatre be it in London, Ludhiana or Latur.
Team Indicine:
Your reasoning and logic baffles me. How can Dilwale even remotely be considered a flop when a few distributers lost money but on the other hand, many other distributers made money or at least recovered their investment..? Is it simply a case of one distributer loses money and the film is considered a flop..? you need to be precise in your judgement.
I know you have not declared the movie a flop but even by bygone standards of yesteryears, i fail to see how Dilwale would be considered a flop for the simple fact that it has collected more then it’s budget over all. Yes, a few distributers may have lost money but like in the case of Rajasthan (invested 8.5 crores and may lose 4.5 crores), i ask how much of this was due to protests and bans in Rajasthan..? you simply cannot put a figure on how the film was impacted by these lunatics. The only way you can is see SRK’s previous track record in places like Rajasthan and make a calculated estimate. If previously movies like CE, HNY etc have been profitable in places like Rajasthan, then there is nothing to say the Dilwale wouldn’t have been also and one can conclude that the issue was the protests and show cancellatons.
acording to last indicine box office model the said- if a movie earned 100 crore net so 50 crore goes to theater owner and 50 crore to distributor. but that was wrong because in single screens distributor gets more profit than theater owner and in multiplex there is flexible distribution between theater owner and distributor thats why kick’s distributor share was 131 crore aprox in 233 crore net collection.